Can I use CPES on my outside hull??

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Can I use CPES on my outside hull??

Postby tcvc » Mon May 03, 2010 6:46 pm

Can I use CPES on the outside of the hull of my boat and will it help stop leaks?? I'm restoring a TVT and I’m just concerned about stripping down the hull, then spending all the time not to mention expense to paint it and finish only to find out it leaks when I launch it. I have never used CPES and am not sure what it's intended use is. If this isn't what I should use what do you suggest ?? I can see like in a couple areas now, so I want to do something.
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Postby LancerBoy » Tue May 04, 2010 3:22 am

CPES is a sealer with the consistancy of water. It will not stop leaks. It will help paint to stick to the wood surfaces.

You must remove any old finishes from the wood and get to bare wood for CPES to be able to soak into the wood. It does no good if you apply it over paint or stain or varnish.

Appears as if you need a flexible marine caulk. Not a hard epoxy but flexible caulk.

Andreas
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Postby tcvc » Tue May 04, 2010 5:41 pm

Andreas, This is below the watert line, What kind of caulok would you suggest ?
Thanks,
tim
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Postby tcvc » Tue May 04, 2010 5:42 pm

Wow sorry should of used spell check on that one. I say this is below the waterline which sort of caulk do you suggest I use?
Thanks,
Tim
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Postby Phill Blank » Wed May 05, 2010 4:41 am

Tim,

"Boatlife" is the caulk to be using. It comes in smal tubes or caulking guns sizes tubes also as well as a few different colors. It stays flexible and can be sanded and painted after it sets up. Follow the directions on the tube.

Loosen the screws and bolts holding the planks then clean out any old caulking between planks and apply new caulking then retighten the screws and bolts. If you are replacing the keel or keelson bed these item in a layer of caulking also. Any excess can be cleaned up using a knife after the caulking has set up.

I do recommend using thin rubber gloves when working with this stuff as it is very sticky and is hard to get off the skin after it dries. Basicly it wears off unless you use a solvent like paint thinner to get it off you skin or surrounding areas. I keep a large box of nitrile "milkhouse" gloves in my shop for use when working with boatlife, paint, etc. That way if I get something on the gloves I can change them out so I do not transfer the material to other area of the project I do not want to get it on.

Good Luck,

Phill
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Postby tcvc » Wed May 05, 2010 3:59 pm

Phil, This is a TVT boat no screws or nuts to loosen. The gap is in the planking on the starboard and port sides just a few inchs off from the keel. I'm hoping that once we get some of that high humidity weather it will close up. can I caulk a gap like that and not have tyo worry about it pushing out when I put the boat afloat?? is it ok to use a putty knife to squeze it into the cracks ??
Phill Blank wrote:Tim,

"Boatlife" is the caulk to be using. It comes in smal tubes or caulking guns sizes tubes also as well as a few different colors. It stays flexible and can be sanded and painted after it sets up. Follow the directions on the tube.

Loosen the screws and bolts holding the planks then clean out any old caulking between planks and apply new caulking then retighten the screws and bolts. If you are replacing the keel or keelson bed these item in a layer of caulking also. Any excess can be cleaned up using a knife after the caulking has set up.

I do recommend using thin rubber gloves when working with this stuff as it is very sticky and is hard to get off the skin after it dries. Basicly it wears off unless you use a solvent like paint thinner to get it off you skin or surrounding areas. I keep a large box of nitrile "milkhouse" gloves in my shop for use when working with boatlife, paint, etc. That way if I get something on the gloves I can change them out so I do not transfer the material to other area of the project I do not want to get it on.

Good Luck,

Phill
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Postby Phill Blank » Wed May 05, 2010 5:07 pm

Tim,

Yes you can use Boatlife on this area also. Clean out as musch of the old caulking or filler as you can and push as much into the crack as possible and even a little extra over the top. Once it has set up you can take a razon knife or blade and trim down the excess then sand and paint over the area. Be sure the area is clear of any old paint, oil or dust beofe applying the Boatlife caulking. If you buy the caulking gun tube you can force it in using the caulking gun.

On one of my TVT's I found string packing in the wide gaps with the old white lead filler Thompson used over the top of it. This was a common thing done at the factory to fill wide gaps in the old days.

Good luck,

Phill
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Postby THE LAKE » Fri Nov 12, 2010 10:54 am

I am going to strip the hull of my Cruiser's Inc down to bare wood, caulk the garboard seam and replace the outer keel. After that I will apply numerous (how many ?) coats of Smith's CPES with 24 hrs drying time between each coat and then bottom paint (to match the existing line) and white marine paint from the line of bottom paint to the underside of the gunwale. The inside of the boat needs to be refinished. I plan on removing the motor and stripping off the covering boards and bow panels and replacing them. I have a couple of questions here. I also want to redo the interior finish. It is peeling and in many places has peeled and there's no finish at all. My 1st question is - - - should I strip and refinish the interior BEFORE removing the covering boards and bow panels or after ? My 2nd question is - - - once I've stripped off the old varnish on the interior wood, given that I will have multiple coats of CPES on the exterior hull plus paint, what should I use to seal and finish the interior; bearing in mind that I cannot seal up both sides of the same piece of wood if I expect the wood to breath and wick moisture. Do I want to apply CPES to the inside of the hull; sealer , what ?

As always, thanks for your comments and advice.

Brian
I'd have a boat and a Harley even if there were no water or roads in the world.
89 MACH I MV1900CC
62 Cruiser's Inc 302V Commander (under restoration) 67 Johnson 100hp Golden Meteor (running like new)
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Postby Phill Blank » Fri Nov 12, 2010 2:38 pm

Brian,

You can use the CPES both inside and out. Do the CPES before doing any chaulking and on bare wood. CPES will cause any residual varnish or paint to turn into orange peel or a crinkle finish.

CPES will allow the wood to breath and give you a good base for your varnish and paint. Generally 2 coats of CPES will do the trick.

Be sure you strip the boat inside and out at the same time and do any staining prior to using the CPES. All new wood can be primed with CPES on all sides before installing.

Good Luck,

Phill
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Postby sayuncle » Fri Jan 28, 2011 8:53 am

Phil, I also found the string packing on my TVT. This was between the garboards and also between the garboards and the first cedar strip. How much restoration work have you done on the TVT style boats? I need to replace all the short ribs and all the cedar strips between the spray rails. I am looking for advice on where to start. I have the outside of the boat stripped to bare wood and have removed the rotted outer stem and keel. I have also started removing the screws in the rotted cedar strips. Should I replace the ribs before the cedar strips? Not sure which to do first. I am worried about not getting the correct hull shape when replacing the ribs. Where to start?!?!?!?!?

Brad
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Postby Torchie » Fri Jan 28, 2011 10:44 am

Just a friendly reminder to those using CPES.
Be sure to wear a good quality respirator style mask and have plenty of ventilation. This product produce some nasty fumes.
Also consider using the cold weather formula as it seems to emit less vapors.
Saftey First.
Karl.
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Postby Phill Blank » Fri Jan 28, 2011 10:49 am

Brad,

I would replace any full ribs or scaff in new wood on these first, if needed, before removing the cedar planking. Once the full ribs have been repaired or replaced then start removing the planking and garboards. Save the garboards to use as patterns for new replacements.
The short ribs if they extend past the point of the bad planking up the hull side into good cedar planking then replace those before removing the garboard and planking. In this way you will help to retain the shape of the hull.
Start replanking with the garboards first and work you way down the hull to the old good cedar planking.
The original planking had a concave and a convex edge to then. On the convex side there was a area in the middle of that radius which was proud and would be comprerssed when the planks where assmebled on the boat form. The planking was steamed before placing on the form and clamps where used to compress the planks together. This was a feature, that to my knowledge, only Thompson used and was a selling point. You will see the convex and concave edges of the planking at the transom. The proud center of the concex side is generally not visable, but was there originally.
Cut you planking to width and machine it to thickness so it is the same as the orignal or as close as possible. A little thicker will give some wood to sanded off later on. If you can radius the edges with a convex and concave shape that will be the best. You will get a tighter seam that way.
The planking will be screwed to each rib as you go down the hull away from the garboards.
You may find that you will have to cut a speacil width plank, either wider or narrower or possible tappered, to fit the last one in.

Then it is a matter of filling the gaps with filler and packing and then sanding and finishing.

Good Luck,

Phill
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Postby sayuncle » Fri Jan 28, 2011 5:45 pm

Thanks for the help Phil. My first job will be to build a steam box and start on the ribs. Have you built a steam box??
Brad K
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Postby Torchie » Sat Jan 29, 2011 9:50 am

Brad.
If you go back through the restoration section of this forum you will find many posts in regards to steam bending ribs. Also u-tube has some good videos of the process as well.
If I could post pics I would show you the steamer that I built.
Karl.
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Postby THE LAKE » Sat Jan 29, 2011 10:27 am

Since the topic of CPS has been raised prominently in this thread, I will use this as a chance to ask

A) After I strip my hull (external) should I apply CPS before applying the bottom and freeboard paint ?

B) After I strip the transom, should I apply CPS before applying marine varnish to the transom ?

As noted elsewhere, I purchased the Dan Danneberg Wooden Runabout Restoration Guide, but still get confused on the sequence of events regarding applying sealers, stains and finish products

Thanks
Brian
I'd have a boat and a Harley even if there were no water or roads in the world.
89 MACH I MV1900CC
62 Cruiser's Inc 302V Commander (under restoration) 67 Johnson 100hp Golden Meteor (running like new)
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